Letzte Episoden:

• Trevor Noah Makes My Brain Hurt

  Veröffentlicht am: 17.12.2024

  It’s our last episode of 2024, so I decided to invite comedian Trevor Noah on…to get as serious as possible.

• Should You Work With Your Friends? with my friend Will Guidara

  Veröffentlicht am: 10.12.2024

  They say business and pleasure don’t mix. But what about business and friends?

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  He a question? I'mpos asar I can t even read with straight face. Should dou do business with your friends or shoul dou not mix that too reason? Will and i ar laughing is because wee talking about doing a business togeather andhen we ha a huge fight about i before we got on the podcast. And now werre asking, should we even be doing th? If you ve been listening to this podcast, you'know that friendship is at the top of my mind. Latelly we trust ou friend. We can rely on ou friends. The ar central attributes for co workers is well, so do friends make good cowkers? I vid my friend an ocion cowker will gderra to talk about i. So good idea, or not? First actuall work together, will is the author of the New York Times best selling book on reasonaable hospitality. He also a producer and rer on the last season of the emy winning show the bear EMP prior to that he'the co hownor of aeven Madason Park, which it want't point with name the best restaurant in the world. But a bble hes, my friend, this is a bitf Optimism. Having you on the podcast is like cheatining becaused you're one of my mail friends that i say i love you to, you know, and the love i have for you is real and permanent. And the reason i say having you on the podcast is cheatining is because i feel like it's too easy. Like i can talk you forever. I oise learn something from you. You oys make me laugh. And my freienchhip with you means more to me thean miny things. The feeling is by way. The last two things i always learn something from you. Well, when I'm wrestling through new idea, you want my favorite people on the world. The talk to about that idea because i was and the conversation understanding att more clarly that i did the beginning. And there are very few people in the world that I lave like a third greater when I'm around younownoal. My favorite things about us is, when we fight, we find a reason to maker a joke and ne only reas ni now this, it'because five minutes before this podcast, you and i on the phone thing of fight that en it up as haring to apologize dother because we had to get on the podcast. But the thing that Iound so enjoyable is not only do we want to get to resolution wann w fight beuse? We don't want herty tother. I we don't want to beat theat person that hearts the other. We really liket it hearttss me more that i het you than you were heartt, you know? But if the opportunity to make a joker rise is, even of the situation, this not call for it, we cannot resist. Yo have to make the joke game of game of joke. Joke, joke, joke, joke. Rright ge back on. So i really need de teil youout how you madke me fear ex? It's serus. Not ser serious. Serious again. Exacty. You are we of the most talentd people I know. And my favorite thing about what's happening to your life is that you were a famous restauran tur. It'guess you stellular a famous restauran tu who your career has made and unexpected turn where you probably when never own restaurant again if I had Ag, guess, and you are now a guru. A thought leader teaching is how hospitality works. B more importantly, how a tree people wich is what ultimatey hospitality is. Do you think you gonna be a restaurant to oning restaurants for the rest of your life? Also do you? O can t know that your career ha a second AC and you talk to me five years AG is iat five yar six years now i would tol, yo, that i will always live in ne York City and i will always own in operate resurace in New York City. And no, I of falling out with my business partner. We fell att of love. And after somet time I became clear. That s splitting the company in the process. A figuring out ha a splitted was well in essence tararing apart. The very thing we spend all that time building and in a revelation like a cinematic style revelation on day like, no. The best thing from me to do is sell him everything that happen ab be two month before co that isigned on the dod line the contract to sell work up a few days later, after few days of some celebration, rhty sol a company that's a big deal with a fall on identity cr who m i who is restaurant without an restaurants and frically aggressively started raising money impantygeer a team and going out to sign leases and literaly Covid started one week before i was set to sign three restaurants and and office leases in Yok City. Then i want up to the country tor house U there for what THP was cann ab be a few weeks are id like all lo usted in th moment i you weeks turn and do a humans I as can of keeping all THS deals warm. Andan one day i decided to just stop couse. I think for many people Covid gave us ins spide of the the loss of life and financial suffering and lones and isolation. Most people i I know ive can point to one thing that they considerate be a gift that Covid ge them a shifting of perspective. And for me it ging me the gift of just stopping andther than running back to do what I do donet g the gift take in the time to decide w i w do next. And that's when i reach toat to you and the Ide of unresonable hospitality was born and i wantant the red the book what we been talking about for Weland now i finly had time and space to focus on it. But for two important reasons, ##y i think what the bes ways to learn is to teach and i figure if i cod spend really intentional time pudding words to the things i really believed th don i would make me better at embodying los things in whatever manics chapter andlpying. But also I figure through walking dow the road. I just been on a neo i would g me clarity and what i want th do next. I don't know that the book was going to be the beginning of what i want th do next. It is not an a new idea to say that too many people intoine there identities into there professions you sed it what is a restaurant her without a restaurant like my identity is a restanur or alloyer or doctor or whatever your chosen professionist ou true career. If you know longer that thing, I know the CEO us a CEO of a big media company, and he left his job. And there is som big fancy Hollywood Party. And he was an invaded and a friend ofis happen to beu over his house that they you licated. Do you get your invitation to the party and iss Francos? Yve course we yo goes. I don't get mind. I wonder may beach just got lost. It never cut to him. That he is for all his years of going to that party. They wann never inving him there'inving the CEO of the company. And he'no long the CEO an. The invitation will go to the next CEO. It never a cut him. And because has identity was so entertod with being the see of the company, he could t understand is two. We not the same thing. But the reason I I'm bring us up notbookca. That's a new thught. But the idea that a friendship, that a partner a work, marriage, the identity of that relationship is interine with the business. Ja, i guess the thught I'm trny get out is like is that healthy. You know, I've goneing to business with friends wh things work. I'gon to business with friends with things did't work. And i'm goneno business with friends where it absolu e destroyd the friendship with successful oue night. And i've gon in the o direction where it had no impact on the friendship. Me be the friendship go better weather it work do not. So is it conditional on the friendship. We, you, friends first and them when int to business together. I did the friendship form in the relation in the business. The friendship formed in the business. We wor together first. Okay? I me, man, i don'tno theat. There is one right answer to thuse. I think th question comes Abo, which as should i go t to business with my friend? What is going in the business with a friend? Actually mean it's. I s effective signing and agreement to commit yourselves to another and help grow and idea together. Which by the way is not disimular to Marage. Yes, and the AM OU played out just for argument sake, i dealy your friends with the person that you Mary and edition to being lovers. And thean one day you decide, get Marrid in your signing and agreement to commit yourself to damm tou in many cases than you have a child and you are commitg to growing that idea together, I know lotter people who started businesses with friends because ether the frech happened to be there. I ve see in a coital dos. I knowdy a marages that of starter that way too. You know, the lucky remate club? Canna thing you ne a friend you trust, and who wants to build with you. But i ve also had dis comversation with people which, if you trlly want a business to succeed, sometimes you have to get used idey. Idea that you may have to fire your friend. Yo me wehen th it succeded versus wen do it fail. Not can. It's not a question th the business succeeding fail. But sometimes that friend Peter principles out like they were huogdly valuable, emotionly and skill set from zero the eins. But don't have the skill set to go from OnePL. Ja, and? So this is the dirty truth about business which we don't talk about wuld. Sometimes you do have to fire your friends. Sometimes you have to ar. Somet time you stop chosing on another right in the Samyght lake, you ha this mared principal other time, the secret to health the marages to wake up every single day and chose that person. Und it's an active choice. Raers is not a passive thing you reengage in the relationship every sine day. And i think this. And friendships and business, they. And for differ reasons differ. Seaassons bit. Somet times it's because one person is outs state there. There value. Somet times it's because they no longer or priorizing wann another. The point th there willing a fate through. Wha is necesaire to makep work? You and I do something that i think most friendships don't. Which is there is a brutal honesty. Not about the other o that happens too empisis on the brutal does a brutdal honesty about ourelves? And you and i in a moment of tension, where were one us as diggging in for some reason or another, the other personal ask, is this your ego? And the default answer for anybody el beIN us? That question is no, even if it yes, what i think is the lesson here, when wann of a say thther, is this what you actually feel? Is this your ego? And the other personal say it's my ego. There a vulnerability, even in in extreme tension. I guess w ar'm getting add is like, how did we learn that? Have you oys been that honest about yourself? How do you learn that? Go Junne. I will say it's my ego and will back away from the argument i in the conversation, we just had i thank thy came of toice. In one case, the ent yn yoer caseingwer nown about two separa things to sep things, I think tHP. Okay? I dely as you get alder and you become more self azure. Your able to actually sayh your right. This is about my ego and this is not routeed in the ray play. Without fearig that you will lose the other persons. Respect for having made that mus stake your re confund ano in yourself to make a stake and and met to having made one. But iat als say, OK, going in to the funne cal we to had we both weherere isn active thing today. Ort's verable in active thing generally have the choice the wed on we friend knoke, you go th. And so in a moment, where, if you say, is that your ego? If i lie noher a rre in arr friendship. That's can ab be hard to repair, and it's just the older you get, the smarter you get. I think more off in the nuhe, and it's easy. Did just make the choice. I careen of ab bet th the person to do, wt i need to do ordered the preserve and pres this Freiendhoip. Confiden. You have the confidence tod your own failings. And the question i masking myself is what comes first? The confidence to be vulnanerble or the skill ab being wnable that leads to confidence. I I'm just thinking, but my ow experience. I don't think i worked on myself confidence in order to be vulnerable, i think i to the exusatig risks to be vulnerable. And it ende id up helping me build my confidenence. Y i think getgre with that you could are you andonee sense? One beiggets the other. But there're pl your people that becomee confondt, that never become more vnerble b more off the ni vy leads. And i think its on fair. I think its on fair human beinings to say, ah, in ordered to have successible vulnerable relationships. Friendship business marage. First, you have to work on your confidence because atat the ender of the day. The thing the maxs is for on love yoith theat chaer is the fact that we can be ineccurure and we can beut. I like nobody is purely confident. We all haen securities and anxties. And sometime is it's because there deepeed id. And sometimes because I had a bad night sleep. They come and go. I ben thinking about this ar lot latelly, which is how we present torelf to the world versus how we present toels to our partners. Business partners, close friends, romantic partners. Like have yo want to defined that private int spaces? Right. And therese much talk a specialy on social media about living your trueelf out loud. Right? Whatever that means. And i'm not suroe that's a 100 % true. I don't think you shuld light to the world. I don't. Thank you shuld present yourself. A something you're not hoever. We have to benend and mold Arelve code switch for the situations that were in in order for society to function. Right? I like sitting down in a chair and bei inconfortable. This is me, right? I can't do that. If I'm having a first meeting with somebody, it's thisresctful. Yes, i like putting my feed up on a desk. I can't do that if I'm interviewing for a job and if somety says why you putting your feed my des yo li. Just being myself. Just BNG my true authenticelf. You don't get to save that like we make different jokes thependning on the company. Warn we have different levels of formality depending on the company. Wer in we push back differently depending on the companyd. Ino, the Woodsf, we wer all just arelve is all the time, every stable institution wouldt just society wuld stop working so. Because where never truly, truly, truly arr full seles and public because I's not. You can't really be. We balance the line. We play the teater toderve being myself, but also being socialy, being a functional member of a civilized society. It's los is intimate relationships when I'm in private, that all of the societies expectations can be rip toway and thoose places I can be my true authentic self. And if you have intimate relationships, we you can ut be your true authentic self. That is where confidence starts to flal. You have to have some place you can do that your playing a public persona in a private relationship. That is where the moist air of bacteria groth, the bacteria of insecurity. I want AdJ another a layer to th. Because here the thing. Yes, i'no a curse in front of kids. I will curse in front of you. I w curse more likey the not on this podcast, but of Younor han a drink all actions. Ho M poster in the chair wit. I kick my fe wher I cuse al stuff. I do think we can we consistenty ar sels when i comes to principles and I know theat water. You are on stage, fr of people or wer you having a pizza in your living room, your principles be the Sam. You'can liv integrity. Yo, hold yourself to a standard of accountability. You are going to lead with vulnerbility. Ja, and this doesn t changed what you sad. But what I do think att means like as THT poins to where the startp wit vulnerability and its s relationship to confidence. I me in ths and relationships are relationships. The lessons we learn from lose and life applied the losose and work and vice versa. And the most confident leaders ar the on that are v with the people under the longesist marages are those where one person is vnerable in of to te the other person, how they mad them feel and how they were het by sometingomplety, unenteented and the same applies and friendship and check in the I go this we is dou stop being vulnerable bege you not confident, or you tred being vulnerble with the wrong person like you tock the wrong risk, that's it. And the number of friends theat I and you both have who are never vnerble in relationships book day. Try that and got throne in the face. And by the way, now they liveing in security in the relationships. And th w they start living the public persona in the that's will start living the public persona privately. And so i think I'm gon to go back to what i atd som moments a go, which was a thought, but i think I'm gont a double down on no thought. Which is we have to take the risks to put. I selve out there in intimate situations, being it a business partner friendhip or romantic partner. And the times where you it nonly does it not backfire. It actually contributes to the relationship. It becomes ease your the take losose risks and you be come mor confident in sining. I screud up, or that's my fold, or i don't mean to be an as alll it's my ego that's getting hurt. Ja, and those conversations become a lot Easar like i think 10 years ag go. If you sad is it your e go i would i sed kno when it was. And by the way your ego would have thn may be f yo yobly yellt me th even as in the question and the relationship. WD of really? Ja, theis a rule. We have a work that i absoluty love in its's incredibley true. Which is, if the responses aboutver five, it'sout something else cash. I love that we use it work, but it's really true and an like if you're SPW, yo you for noting in the cap on the toot paste, i tol yonder times notout. It's not about the tooth paste. And the problem is is we don't listen to the volume. We listen to the words and them we get defenseives. Like WT's? The big deal is just a cap on the toot. So you pu i on who cares? Nothings happening, right? And a fight and suses as a post, a thying to cells. This is not about the to the paste. Ja, and than by the way, have the courge to say ail thre somet and more a play. We talk ab your re job a listen to there story and to learn to respon with curiosity. Tommy ho. You feel why dou think you feeld that way? Is that really true? I understand example. You gave me. Can you give me more examples to help me understand? Wer? I'm failing you. The example thing is so interesting. Beca some time on, i m in a tense moment in relationship. Als sey that. Hey, can you give me examples and the responsors? We don need a rehashed. No, I'm not trainey has B. I will like to understand what i am doing. Inadverly, the make you feel that way thch that th can me better at not doing the examples have to be spific. That we very sp sometimes th a simple wordetimes you new trace alway back to it to realize a the W thing is mis placed or be gh. There is this little thing that i do. That is totaly grating on this person. And it's so easy fre me a stop doing it and the impact is profund if I can. Okay. What do people not understand about friendship break uups? Oh, man. What to people not understand about frienship break uups? It'so big. Th question. B question? I'm so glid you have the answer w the not me alsso pas. I id in the negative like know, i think that people ar much lasier and more passive in friendship break uups than they are in like romantic relationship break uups and in beieinng. So are undermining the unbeievable importance of valuable friendships INR livive? Ja, i we'e talk about this all the time. How? With everything that exist out there, aboutping a good leader, good dad, a good husman wife, whatever, we don't talk about friendship nearly enough. And y that is the one that actually energize is you ins sets youp for success and all the other relations chips. We are so much less intentional andr pursuit of Th friendships. Und intention thed of someting is just as if not more important th intention beginn somet yo THK about som the closeers friends, you have in your life youingk about vulnerability and the things yo ve experience with them and the things tod them. The things about you that only they know, and yet they just drift away imine of that wash the case in am marage, you re like one day you re does not mared, and you don'tg wn know what happened like it's. It's a bzarely caner int I of thing. I think you right. I think what people do not understaout friendhip breaks up is they require the same a level of effortt and stress and coage as breaking up with the business partner or breaking up with Marage. The require effort, the only difference between our closes friendships and our business partnerships and OU managers is is no contract. Ja, and so we go through the exroting pain of ending dose relationships because we have to unwe the contract way this kno unwinding a contract in a friendship. And so we can get away with being lazy or of voiten. And by the way, actually addressing at even ifit is the end of the road for a friendship is not only anactd generosd the but tw yourself is well y and i think there a courage that comes from leaning interin say i think we ar re growing apart. And i think wer re boat showing up iy thk, just i thingk wer playing rolls. I thingk we re boat playing the roll a friends. But let's be honest, I can't be hap unhappy in the friendship. In you're are really happy in the friendhip. This no way that Arr feelings are completly uposd. So if I'm feeling this uns sas fieding th and hapy have to believe that your somewhere around closed to that feeling is. W by the way, somet times like intentionally going to. And a friendhip is the best, w a i tr somy time to en my frenchip with you. Never w m best friends college just feeling under invested with the friendship. I was giving aot more to it and was receiving. Und hey, i m investining to much in the this friendship and not gotting nearly enough back from you. And if that your wave, tell i me that your re busy your life as move donwe that i think were closer than you think we are than gre iate. But com me th have that conversations. Wh I know werhere we stand and hees need to here. That is sake. Oh, my gosh. You re right. No, this isn important friendship to me. And hed to the stay is doll. Wann my clust is friends in the world. W this is my big complaint about how We tree friendships or how we tree friends. Rther, right? Which is, most of a think were good friends, and most of us actually pretty bad. And the example that offen give is wuld. You cancel on a meeting for a friend. Wh you cancell of friend for a meeting? O but my friend will understand, you know, and to your point, which is we get lazy withho friends. Noirr friends. Yo, don't calor friends, because courd on code Thel, understand? And it's really quiet dismissive to assoum that sommmity fine with bad behavioior. Ja, or dismissive behavioior or being de priorize constantly acionly. It'acceptable but constantyt's not acceptable. And i'am m guilty it there one friend i have. I'm thinking of wight now, which is i'am so guilty of de priorizing her all the time. And the reason is is cosh she let's me. And the reason is i bet i am as we for doing it. But she'consant like do'more about. It's okay, i understand. And i a cut and she never set anything to me, but she'constanty showng up is a good friend. And i got to the point w was so onbalaanced that i fald like such and ashoe because she cap showg up fr me in when i need att most and I cap failing. And i had have a hard conversation with myself that you betutter up your game couse. You do not deserve the freiendchh up that your re getting ya or stop taing or stop taking. Yea, andt's not ab behavior that that amo of this missives, muchles prevalent and mar and work can theing youver canceled a date with your we for friend back and for or tinker your kids in a friendship. That's thank you should like you can't getway witt. You can t getway wit it. Friends, i think it's want the reason sumny are actuy worst friends them we think we are is because we can be. I think friendships alow to get away wit things that to your point marriages and business relationships. This just no room for it. For whatever reason the institution just disesn t the lawfr it i no'tthingk. It's possible to liv a life worth living if you don't have a agrup of friends that you perl constanty that you love, that you trust that you willul do anything for and by the way depending and your band with and how much you have going on in your life w you have kills or job and ou busy you are and work. That list is can to be longer or shorter but you need to have a group and it shuld only beug people on not list. You can actually give them the time. The friendship deserve that you call really, really good friends. Because if you don't, i just think there is way way to many things thear missing on and but I of busy people ar patient with busy people y and it's not a question of ho much time is committed. Som actuallyt me i'm gond attake the back every freench to passats'owncurrrency like you and i, when we are together, we are all in wher thereat's for 20 minutes or an ouur or a day like you un i are vari tense and vari intenional in whatever interaction we have. But you i can go month without talking but a disesn t affect my feelings for you. So time is quantity is not our currency quality is our currency. Other friends i have quantity is the currency. Like i like seg the M lot they like seeining me a lot and it or we talk a lot in if that folters want ofver all say somethings rock yes by the way and thean similary withho if we huing out din'very deep all w the people hey, what' come on on here, right dept depth is our currency. And sou, if you and iur superficial one of us is gonna etather say, are you mat at me? Or something us going? Go your mind by the way thing busy people ARr patient with busy people. And i hoster think busy people are normy the people that howays make the time for the things that matter more than people. Th are not busy in my experience that wt i don't that onl me think about that for second bus shoul dou do business with your friends. Shoul dou not mix that to areover th one reason will and i lauging is because wee talking about doing a business together and we ha yo huge fight ab baut before we got on the podcast and now were asking should we even the question ig masking is shuld. We be doing th I? Yes, i i i no thing. It's binary. It's thke thing. Should you get Mary or night topend on who you are and who the other personal ha gon a navigate through it? I think for example, if you have no money, you should't make choose a business partnerhos, a multimillionaire of the hungrie and w of the misant and a level of commitment, they will give to the business or be very, very different. Itle ll breed resentment and so what i ve learned having successful and uns successful experiences in business with friends is the motivations have to be similar and the i it very clear expectation set early on because we will make assumptions about the other persons commitment and you? I againr pretty good about that we will. You ive had belend conversations. Say, listen, andt's not personal. Just like, hey, listen, I and ne yo to managed my expectations. What realisticaly do you have time for in this books? I'm wnd go all in. I'm mo cave. You're not all in, but i need to know you 10 pro int, 20 %, 50 pro in. Und by the way, that number change wuth, you got a tell me? Yes, and i think you can go into business with friends. So long as everythings on the table. Don't lee anything up to assumption. And is that fair? I thing that a 100 pront fair. And i also at this, you can't stop being friends. You don't repla the friendship relationship with a colue relationship, you know, have two relationships. That is true and under appciated. Let's go down, rabbite. Your duald, OK? You and i, i. I m amving ar time in work, or? With my dad, with my we for whatever if i just need. So in the talk tou you're want my people that call yokew star business. Now we a wait like that s what were gonna talk about when we talk? It's Normy about slining, going on, livive or wer just goingtiggling and having funk about wee a business. Now we'a wholeother basket of things wehen. Need a talk about if we stop doing the first group. Y like it s like when you grow a business, you can t stop being the thing that give you the opportunity to growul. We have learned, and i think its'important, which ar you learnd to compartimentalize? Togree and Tal toer diffly. Yes, business conversation, we do not. We sound like we lovenke, we trusty. We can spak twitcher shorthand. We can be a little B a reverend, like we can dual th things that a freienchhip a forge you, but it sounds like a meeting. B the poter friendship at back on and pue that relationship and it is very compartmentalize. And with practice, I can me very fluid. We can actually bounced between the tw. But there's two distinct relationships happening that i sumit worter, you know, watch they WT here, ou? Tones of voice sound different. Even our level of respect changes, you know, like if wee in a friendship, we in you say something. I be like. That's bullshit. Wut. I we in a business context, I'm knock ins speak to that way. Ja, i m. I don't think i agre wit that one. I think, can i push back on? That is ho. I was. It's som was w wer are san the ver begining the principles arles reman the same, but are actions w change and was code switching in the relationship? Beut couse. We have do ja youse and i THK that s people make m stick. They i like friends in the business context. Or theat AC like business in the friend context and ar conslaating the tw bookuse. It happens to be the same person. It happens to be the person i be what we were do the final ad unresasonable hospitality. Ha? Any other friends and some the things to me theat us su me thn w the w because I trusted you to do that project with you because of ARR friendship. But WCE we re doing att. We were coles, we were colleges. And again the friendship of Ford, both of us a little more latitude, the still a level of respect you just ajust. I think you have to. I've hid friends to work with me. And so they we from being my equal to my work support not no hate the term. But there is a work. Higwky, i pay ther salary and that one is tricky. But because it based on respect, there styill a code switching like w't weren T work mode. Ja, I do get the final word. They can push hard, hard, hard. But atat the ener the day ie i say. Look, this is my decision. That's it were done. And that's it no push back. But when't wee not att work? I have to remmbember that I'm not the boss. Like now are equals and I've got in really good it that. But i i have strugglet beokcause. Not everybody is is practice. I can compartimentalize the two differes thing. Anyone listening to this that is apart of a family business can resonate withhererything was san very, very clearly, right. It's no different if I work with my dad en withery th am as my boss, the momy. Stop doing that your creatig attention in that relationship or in the money surrounding relationships. And you have the baibible to subpe like I workith my sister and we were. And work mode. We talk to yo to the quiet differently that one were. And like brother and sister mode. Ja, it's a toggle PHKE the word code switching like in the gather negative contations over time. But in this context, i think it's lober THG is. It's a form of honestly respect. It's a term that comesom social sciences and s it just comes. I learned thtat way back. And anthropology, when i was an anthropology, major and college, and it was not, i dondn't coveny bagage associated to. It was just just a thing, you know ja, that you actively for the environments that you. But in this content like itd, sag hey, if I'meur friend and now I work for you, I don need a change the way i engage. Wh you have to change the code by which you follow in how you engage as a form ofve respect, not to you, but to everyone around. So want of my best friends in the world is a senior officer in the military, right? And we ar a reverent toetach other we college other in good times and bad times, se is want my best friends. And when i am an office with him on his base, with his support, nos sitting around him. I call him Sir h because i show respect and know sometimes usice as call sign is well and peoplenohere familier. But i don't over play the familr card beokcause. It s roud to the room and disrespectful to the rank th that he has. And iat I thingk it undermind as position. So i show particular difference. I would never call im M. Si ou si of you gotugt be kidng would like I. I workd in your restaurant and you ha me to do something. I would't over play the friendhip cot. So I'm simpleply making a case that switching the code by which you follow the environment yourke Leyu calight, that we that every timehe coltherok, right? And i i'working for you now. And you come to work and I'ke heyokt underminds and and I create doubt that you're giving me preferentl treatment. Beuse acccessivey, famil people, w respect me. And you correct. I think in any relationship, we make investmentske relationship, capital investments, and you can draw down on them a little bitip. But if you start overdrying on account, sedy wake up day with wit probleat noin toiendship workat you more at to. If yo really closeut, if you takevage thatate real the same is, you do get grace really good front. You can cancel on at the lest and they will understandut. You do that too many times. You need a maintain aosed of balance in THT account. Otherwise ##t's not anal freienchhip. You knowt, i'am m learning from this whole conversation. It is a theme that running through this whole conversation. It's the term respect. You have to respect the person for who they are, for what they your re doing. Whah arur trying to do in addition to being their friend, like i have deep dep. Deep love fre you. But i osve deep, deep, deep respect for you. And because i have resp spect for you, how i will talk to you publicly, i is gon to be very different. How i talk you privately because i wanta big up you in public. Where i talk you that familiaierly in public, it would undermined what youur re working towards. Yes, so I'm not counowing. I'm offering support for sumary. I love, you know, it's can a like fight and private. But then once a decision is made, we ald to the party line a. It's a same thing, which is this nothing worstomeboy who publicy undermind whatever the decision is, because they disagreeu. We all had a opportunities. The fate decisions ar made now we all work. And by the way, I seene this in the marine core, the marines look for this when they s study leaders theat also studying followership. And theyone see if you disag your leader and the leader asks for Yourin. Iat, you will be honest about the fact that you think we yo take a diffent course of action. But once the leader makes the decision that you will work tusly to see that the leaders decision is successful, wh? Yeah, an if it fails, you don't say. I told you so you a pivot and tr and find a ne way to see that the team and a leader succeed. And the looking for good followership. And i think that's are talking about here. Which respect thatre a level of respect and support. And by the way, just to that point, in every great friendship, sometimes you need to let and sometimes yo need the follow. And if your always only planing one rule, there's som and wrong ethink. Ja. And look at the en of the day, like, yo, i ha dis agreements gor as we were editing your book. Yes, ha ve said more times that I'count that you ree the greatest editor on the planet. I'really minutet and like the process, i feel like just like a peak behind the cuta in the process of Adg the bok wit. Simon. With this i wannver the yoeur house satuross the table. This is what you insisted. I st you the mancript like six we sh enco sa. Hey, have you Reddit? Like really cravven feedback car you like come over, so on over th house. And for f day is red the book outloud. And by the under th f thys we shifvedzet of that book oranzig % that don'tnowther presnt I a big number and the book is marketly better. Marketly better? Because you know wy, that process workd. Go theise th you my comment. Cut this. Cut this. Cut this. Thisesn T work. Move the order change. Thisw I ming a creative producthich is very personal. Ja, and every creative person will take the crdit as personaly because you can t not, right? It's hard not to. And it's cold. When we are reading the book together, and i making observations. You're with me? Ja, is like difference. Tw two. And with i don't shave 20 % off. We shave 20 pront off. Ja, i don't change the first chapter oder the second chapter. We decided that the first chapter should be the second chapter. B. Here is the thing. This is my first book bookbookok, yo. Ne York Times bests selr multiple times over. Ja, i can totalyers hos some abut i. I tell people that son pl th, yo, big Rollland etining i the thereno on no THK. I had an thing to do that like it's go a totaly like 'I get that by the way i gett by way. I ve ben there. I ve been insecure about. Is it my accomplisment? Will people respect me? Lass if I had help. And i think there is aign like my friends in the military who are now reting and going to private sector theis. People are very senior. Their badas aß as. And the so humble, the business world misspreceeiive the Ms. In secure there, li, yo, they like, no, i couldnoe anything wout. My team. My team is. They do it so acccessively, that when i talk to the people who they had meetings with, i like howd the meeting goth, yo, like, I don't know be is got it. I just doesn't seen tougough. I'm like you kidg, yo, know, you re talking to and li just came a cross. Is like a little soft like. Just liked, yo? Don't know what is. I think, yoe, and it's beok. Is they over? Play the humble cards. There is align. But if you play it in the raightway, not only will people not thank you re lest thm there will'bel like. Oh, my gosh. This is a really confiden a person who red the dam'good book and is so confident in WT? He did that. Hi's willing. The really shina light on on the personlt healtp, do I? And here is my favorite thining about unreasal Hostality. I told to i sad publicy all the time. My favorthing abo about on RAS hosptality is you have sold more books in the time its's bin ouut in we your two years. What? It's Ben. Then i have sold with any of my books in the same Imp a time. And your book is on trajectory. To out performed. Start with why? And that makes me so insanly proud. It makes me so iny prad that the successive unable yo'ree unreasable hospitality is so so good that you will blow pass. Start with why? And you're dod an a much short it toke me a million years to sell the mony is money books as I's sold with. Start with why. You will be there in less and have the time. And i cannot tell you how i have genu enjoy. For that genu enjoy. I'love you. Thank you to mo layerd mor fasted it. Thank you. I love you to and to watch to be AP part of your second act gouse. I had nothing to do with your first act. I simplyyment e i your resurant a couple times. That was all i did to contribute to your first act. But your second act to beable to stand along side you beokuse. We became friends when you ree Stilllett a restaurant. Ja, and? So you are my friend first, but to get a stand, buy you and be apartive. Your second act, while you are apart of mind, is Welluse. I'm doing new things and you are partner to me and is new things, i guess with just answer of the question, like can you go int to business with your friends? Your dam right, you can h you started this f sing? Is this phase of my life does your coming or has ainesnes a surprise. Yat Bnes a surprise and the greatest surprise ever. I just feel like everyone has anotther chapter and the wthhere they aally live. It is to be a terment. But we have i this just a matter flip in the paage and se what's on the next one? I will coloseose with this. If you chosed have a secondctt to third act for act, whatever actut your into up to you will find the courage to do that. The confiden to do that if you do with a friend, because that friend who'with you judge you zero loves you nomotter with the iat'exceed orur fails with you. Do it with them or do it buy yourself. So long is that friend is by your side. You will find the courage to make dramatic and difficult change there. I say it easy. This's me really fun, Pooky. ##h go thatn'td m go heydydy hais is ive you bye. I yo. If you enjoy this podcast would like to here more please subscribe wever you like to listen int to podcasts. And if you like eve an more optimism, check out my website simonssonect com for classes, videos and more until than take care yourself. Take care. Chaut a but of optimism is a production of the optimism company. It's produced and edit id by Lindsay Garbinius, David Jar and Devvid Johnson are execute of producers. Ar henriated A. Conrad and Greg Ruders SHMP.

• The Secret to Happiness with Harvard professor Robert Waldinger

  Veröffentlicht am: 03.12.2024

  We all want to live a happy life, but what does research say about how to actually achieve it?

  Zusammenfassung lesen
  Transkript anzeigen

  You migd. No this because you are a psychiatrist. Ha mey. Psychiatrist is a take to change a light boulb. One. Exactly one. But the light bul pas to really one change. I love thatke. We all wann to live a happy life. Of course. Inf fact we want. It'so much that there'is a whole cottage industry. Build run helping as findd. But what do a happy livfe actually look link the 1009 hunt. Drei. Some Harvard scientist started tracking 700 tause teenagers the cap detaild records about how they live there lives und what gave the satisfaction the tract. All sieben hunt people for there intire light only ten of the Mr. Living today and they are all in the hunderts. But just like the people the study tract, the scientist got all to. So the director of the study was handed to subst generations. Und Dr. Robert Waldinger is the car director a position he hel for the past taanzig years. So he knows all lot about wha actually leads to happy life. I wanta to know the things he is learning. I also wanta to know how hes changed tos own life as result of the dat her reads. And let's just say i making a yow changes to how i live my life to. This is a bit of utimism. I don't ha a ask this without it sounding not palate. But i w canl ar can think to askett how to come. They pick to you to lead the happines a study your re noth. Yo, the ony that question. Question. Did you draw the short straw? You know, I mind of draw the short straw. What happen was my processor, George Valiant, as the couple of other people. And this atidnow, this. This is a great big Messi Albatros. You KW with date the GST back Toecnta. So he got turn down, so he proy got is third choice. I thk i was at least to third choice. So what me you say yest? Let's go there thn. Ohw. The research project that i back them to fund the federal government set now noat's so interested, so i was in place and my precess su set com over the my office and just read through one person file. And so i OK, so he the file wasit probably a thus pieces a paper. I started reading through. And i red about this, you old guy. And whaty hope to for for his life and what was most to important him and what was like to be dating. And then i red about hisd asptions. And then i flippe to hisd discussion of his marage. How disg it was. You red his life. I red is life. I sa there and red his life. And iw like this is like the cooles thing i could do base on the actual people you studed. Tell me something they get right as they your young kids in the teens and the or even in the early twent. And they start to think aboutt will make them happy. And they get it right all lout. Them care about making a difference in the world and they care about the world. And the people who stay with thatho that main not be the same purpose al the way through there alive. But the people who stay with that aspertion, I think stay engaged in life. And i think that s what they get, right? That's really significant. Right? If we look at ho teaching ou childre universities advertise as aas to chose the overher starting salies of the graduates and are guidance councellrs. They don't asks the right questions about how we wanta contribute to the rod there. Ask us what we can do where we think we can get employment. What i find ver significant about wt your sag is what if ar guidance councillrs what i are deans, whatverr parents start and stilling it as at a very young age. The apportance a simply wanting to be apart of something bigger than ou salls for get abut actually achieveing it s simply wanting itht that as you sed the date a shows that people who at a young age want to contribute something bigthm seles. They will some how pu that I deal for the rest of the lies which keeps the and above average happy rates. Yes, and ik what happens is that many people have positivdind of psychological maty thve onning to be part of something bigm sel Eric Ericson. Ino you? Hi. Stuf was a psychoe analyst from viea in the thta came to boston, who tal for a wil at Harvard and he started talking about the stages of adultt develment. Nobody at talk about adult development. Everybody was interestedten kids casuse they so ob yously develop right? But he that you know adult'go throh the stages and one of his stages he cald Generatiity versus Stagnation. And the generatiity was wning to be part of something bigger than yourself realizing o i w helpe kids or i want mentor people, I want do something that not just me and he seid that the people who do that become the people who i gonna look back on there lives with less regret, with more of a sense that that my life was good enough. I thk w living in a time where theat we intellectualally? No, that because the subjective somity social media posts, I thank wed living in a time. W people don't feel connected something big go in them, selve in general. We don't work for companies for drei years. Any more church tendances down. Even the great power competitions of US Vus the survey Union that we will proud to be apart of this side versus that side. Like even at a global politics level, like those things i'gone a way. And i think you seed on the left en the rate politically people letching on the absolute anything that gives them that sense ab belonging. But it isesn't last. Those attachments don'tut last. But you can seed them just grasping for it. The intense letching on to witho's a far left or far right point of view. Abouthow the world should work and they latch on to it as if it's there life purpose. But it isn t i last for aearad a time and the on the next ork disapate, right? Or an identity as a certainkindve influencer or an identity as a certain as ason living a certatain style of life materialy. I'me in the all all this ver is identites. The people ar struggling for I think you right. Robert Pottnm is a political scientist. He road a bokcal bowling alone. Ja, ja and y, right? So, you know, abut the. So he he tra he tract how we ve stop toongingight stop all things you just seid. And we w stopd joining clubs and volunering and having people over to houses. And what hi found is th it's goten worth sens. The digital revolution. The digital revolution has accelerated the trans that were orady there. And so the path of least resistance now is social isation greater greateration. And all can a desperate for what to do aboutt ha a feel like we belong. I wonder w if we need a new word, i yo what am mean coused? The technology has cooped words, right? So a desktop used to beur horizontal surface, ye, and now a desktop is a vertical surface. And a folder was something used to put away and afphettical order. And now a folder, something you click onolu. It's taken words and things to mick the transition to living in a digital world. I know why they do it. It's because it eas year. But the world community used to mean like showing up and warriing of fez, you know, you know, secret handshake. And there is a time to meet up, and there is free food and community mental thing. And now that word is been cooped to like being on an email list. Ex now, what you and i arur talkingout wee tempting to offer an arca definition. I what community is and i wder if institve tring to fight it, we just need a new word. And an people will want the thing that's the new world. Because community ready belongs online. But i word i that the word wee substtuting is something like tribe and tribe hasthers connotations of who exclude who we make other, you know, wall that s stugh. I think t were all stock in this place. Wher we don't know ha a belong with out making other people enemies. Yeh, i want scratch this just a little bit more. Excuse i, when I articulated the concept of why the reas night cald at the why was a semantic problem that i faced, which is i got tired of debing with people. What comes first, vision or mission? And the debate would go on forever. And so I findy realize we wer having a semantic debit yeah yeh. And so i as the people who believed vision wash preemmanentt, what is the definition aision to you? And they se it's why get at a betd in the morning. And i want tobeeople who believe mission with preemminentt. And i that what's mission to ne seat willt's why I do what I do. So everybody witht wasith purpose or brand or Whatever worherd, they thought was the thing they will ge me the same definition. And so i sa okay, so let's call at the why. And now we can all agree what it is. And now we can actually figured ho a do it RTH of and debate what comes first. Right? Right, exacty. And so i wonder how people ar defining community. And maybe you have some data that explains that. Like it's want thing to say i want t my life to be aart of something big. Go th thtelf i want to feel assense of purpose. But what actually base on this longgitual study, what actually to people mean when they say th is words the people who talk about at the most ment something quiet fluid and quiet individual. So the people who is the best this would have like work mades over for barbecues. But theat mix in there family that mix in cousins, and they mix in people from their church and they introduc segether. And so you have this people who become like the nodes o a group of people that get connected. They become if you will connectors. But that means that each person Migke be the node of a unu neck collection of people as aose to one thing, you know, going to at church, going to a seneal great yah. You can do that a nadies a defined community. But mostster us have this things that ar more fluid in individual. What my friends who'the bestd this keeps connecting his friends from random parts of his life. And it's really fun to get to be part of that group. People cosuse it so diverse. I think you'touching on something. I i thk yo is really magical, right? If wee saying it's important for ast a build community. And i ve done this. I've gon to diner partes and it's the same people att somboity atat just a different house. Yeah, you know. And they say we care about community. But as your re defining it, it's not really community. It is a samehn people, a different houses. And i think w your talking baut is the importance of the salon ol the old school salon, which is inet of hosting ad din a party wehich you take it apon ar celles to build soln. Which is i'm goodite somet tride. And true friends, I'm wo invites and people who i just mett recently I'm invite som me. Yo, who i mett at a different in the party. And i me man out give a subjected discose at the table. But this is wohat's gona happen bookuse. And i'll god a somedy elas di in a party who is at mind. And it's i lot of new people for me too. And i love this idea of us. Not just hosting diner party forh the people we know. But for speccilly hosting diner partes for people we know that our friends don't know exacty because the same and people is in ale, right? Li i it's allmos I could be her mediically sealed. And so you know what each other thinks you know, you know each other. But the most exciting conversations happen for me when people come who do complety different things who come from different backgrounds. I mean, today i was on a call with a researcher who was growing nerve cells from Skiz a Freenix. And he s trying to see is a nerve sell different in hew? It makes connections if it's got the jeans of sommemon with s schizophrenia. And there for someone who has dilusion, do the connections that a nerve cell make, are they different for people with dilusions? And i i'm like buzzing with all the ideas, right? It's because a student of mind is also a student of heess and brothers together and ar hid started to explode with excited possibilities. And i think what you talking bad is we connected not on the interest. That s stuff is superficial. That stuff is good. It you knowd ofve getting people on the room. Yeah, but we'e talking about deep values that are deep or than our political points of you, beokcause, I can neve the same values a somedity with a different political point of view than me. And i think people confuse those things is somet times i love thisw long ha you le the haw longf you been the boss of the study thanzig yearsanzig years. And what did you learn from the data that you be able to apply to your life that has made you happ? Yoear i now col u my guy friends and i say let's go for a walk, let's go to dinner. We'no go a lit wigait for are wive to do this, think to organize ou social livese. Go at, do this. And i first it'really awward like we Don't do this wee guys and thean it's Benin. Wonderful thing in terms of really getting to know individualy people. We otherise part of social group, part of the same people you will. But we never Doug Morey inonowingther. And so it made me do that because iught other wise. I'm just go a sit here on my computer all they long doing my research stuff, doing my academic stuff and pick my head up and have no friend. That's a really good one. Ja, somebody sad take care of your body like your go needed for a hundert years. And i realize that boy, this really, really matter that in OU data, the people who to car of the regularercise not abing drugs and alcohol not be coming ob all that's stf the liv Don Avge years longer and state health her. So even it's not rocket science and i s not news. I could see in my own data how much it really manters people I see mus starting to di now on the study a lootthm of die right most to the original fo of die se hun original people right fe than stellive and the all over, okay? So of the on of the se the once who live the lont, you knowcause, bio hacking is a thing now, and like there's in obsession with longgevity. And so the people who live the lonist was there a pattern that you were able to discer? And the people who live the shortest was there pattern in that usle to discern yah y y yeh. The longist was literally takeing care your physical health and beIN really socialy engaged in the world, OK? Those wit, the two things and the people who live, the shortist, it was the appost people who be came oucoholics, who be k ob bes, who didn't take cara themelf and who ar iolated. This is why think your work is very ver important is beokcause. I think a loer the long jevity people and bio hackerson of the all talking about bmins and exercis, and that s stuffs great. And they pay lip service to community. We there givings exact dosages of vita D that i sh we taking or daily bases. But nobod is giving a may a prescription to had a hanggot with my friends. Because community doesn't make money. You can sellta man, d you can sell supplement se pack ger and fancy wass. You can su a on a podcast, right? I appreciate this sin. Th is'm so much. You have now idea. I'm so sorry that. No, i think you are hunzent, right? I thank your hundertzent, right? There is I financial incentive to sell have a solution. Exacty, you know, when t what i strugo with. So, as you know, i m physician, I'm sacchiatrist. And onann of the difficulties with mediison is that the vast amount of disease is preventable. But you don't make money in medicine preventing disease. You make money curiring disease or tring to amilte disease with medications, with procedures. You don't make money preventing disease by encouraging people to socialize, by encouraging people to exercise youening. Th the 20 years you get TT talking aboutd? Actually no. OK, don yo getting the sameke. You can do a you can t have to the same questions five times in orrow yoe. But howy get as to so diffent? Talking with you right now is really fun, right? Because of the way we ar talking? No, but really, because there's this kind of there a real back and force, right? It's we have a conversation there. Other times, when i it's like, just shoot me if some mon sa as i you, i'm really looking forward to reading your book. Can you explain to our listenstenerss what you do? Th that s like finger na on a blackboard. The interviews that i hate doing is we the people ar so over prepared to talk to me th they as me questions about my book. Like, Simon, what the five elements of the infinite game and house? Like, you know, the answer us say att? Like, why you ha me questions? You know, the answer tos to as me questions, you don'tnow the answer to tht's more fun. Absoluly, absolu. And so when'something spontaneous happens, like, is happening now with you, i could do this forever. But when the other happens, i just. I just wann be done an never. So i, I have. Yo, I mean, you mingd. No, this because you are pschiatrist. Hay psychiatrist is a take to change a lightulb exacty one but theht really onege i love. Wt is your journey? How dod you get intoychiatry? Like wise? When you decide, you want to go a med school. Why the mind? When I decided the go a med school, it wasn't gonna be the mind. I a just kid from to moine iowa ##wisid from we ha about ao and Jewish families in we ha thre andve synago. But most of thechiatr new work with Menle Psychothp was no thing you did in. You really, il ne be hospital. So i didn now onybody, but i k new, i really light working with people. And so when i got to met school, I realized that pschiatry was wt by far the thing that excited me the most. But pschiatry is the step triald of madazn. So alot a my professor sed, you know, ether you at the bottom a the class or you yourself ar crazyuse. There be no the reason for you to go into pschiatry. So toke me a long time beore i finally at mi id. Like who my kiding? This is really the most interesting thing. Casther Wise atat was memorising theve types of thyroid tumors. And I din't care about THD tumors. An somboy i new had one. But I care deeply about the mind in espeialy how my own wortd. So i had a com round to it dis fe the stigma a being a sacchtrist. How dod you get over the stigma? Because it theis a lot app pressure to become on accountat or choose the line of medicine. That's most in demand, right? K nowuse? It's a better business option. Like you falload passion. I did. I did w parly, i fallw a passion. Because what i I'm not good it doing things. I'm not passion. No. About actually all my energy drains. And i start to shut down and i start to feel teraraable. And i started to do that ar realt. I don t car abut most of medicine. So yes, i could become a cardiolog. Just like many of my en and onclls weed. Me do cos cardiologies a nice field. But i real i wod just die. I wo just wither on the vine. And what i finy learn to do overtime is to listensten to that go that sas I'mne to this and i not drn to that. That's probly the hardesst lessonson i pe to keep learning th my life so good seggway. If we look at the world is it is now it's semes that younger people who i tr toer wt to do w there lives there qu on code passion for something semes to be. I don'tnow it's driven by got. But semes to be driven by external awards structure. You know the number of young people? I i want be in influencer. It's Ike people come up to me and say Simon can get ad. I love to be speer amazingattout Don tkeu Gott in the wrongater. I want been influencer. Influencer is a mchanissm to spread something. But what this a thing your passion thout to spread theat thing that they think their passiont for it. Something that look school, sound school. Get a lot of adration. Get a lot a money. Get a lot of fame. And it an agiled question how I know wt i m passion it for for me it literally has been learning to tap into my energy. Is my energy. Hiher, or lower. In this moment, thn it was of hum minutes to go, literally. And i had to learnnet. I'm really enjoing this conversation. My energy is higher. Ja, and if I'm in a conversation where it starts to lower, i get it right away. And we things i come to understad is that we get train to ignore TH signals. I was it lease thick about all the time. You ha at dis sit in a classerman school and you have this ur to do something or explore something, but quest, you hae th sit still and watch the clock until the class was over, we ve been to to suppress the is inner voices. I thinks sinweeer in pre school. I think your right, but ha'a new on yoe. That s very important. And i need yod don't rapid for me. Which is we valuate friends. Like are our friends generative? You know, onbalaanced not every time. Because somet times were tired. Somet times there tired. But en general, when i hang out with ex friend vus. Why friend? Is that friend generative? In how i feeld, do I leave my time with them? Hap your il laated aß you sed like up, right? And i m pay intenion to that that i want is been more time ATM versus w i been friend for fünf year. So i guess i got w. And i think that s truet without work is, well, it obvicely conflic with things like responsibility cons some times yo have to suppress that feeling go. I have to be responsible, you know it. Mit einem IMP perfect standard, right? I don't alway feel exchanging that diper, right? Exactly. And i think your touching upont, which is fokes like us are giving ad vice like trust your god. Follow that, eltion. But the problem is, is that I don't know have people or running to awards it, or when they don't feel it, they rebell against iat. So for in a work environment, rightu? We see this all lote. I particular young people. B dont not exclusiveyade. Just have more Courage. I think if there in a job that doesn t do that there very vocal and somoms rejecting of the culture, the leader, the boss, the jobb itelf. And i think this more about speaking out againsinst the fact that I'm not ilated thinking that by speaking out against, that i will find the elation rather than doing more of the thing that AES me li going to work and thing. Hey, bzz, this a lates me in general thistes me less in general. Can I do more? That, please, r the rejecting th baby ou the bawater absolu s the mor need toke responsibility thatight to have a sens agency. OK. If this job is drining as it is, what can I do? Right. What can I do? And. And some that as you know has to do with connecting with people on the job. Like a one things we know is that if people have friends on the job, i they ha people they want to show up for that. In ano i self is energizing, even if your making widgets in away that beng wee creating a problem her. Yo, realize that, because wee saying don't run awave from run to awards. Run to awards. If you run to awards the contribution to something biggerd. And y i think people if there listening will say ah, i think I'm running away more off. And that i'm running to awards. I'm running away formulationships. Rth th inowards new. Once i som running awave fr m job, iy hate rther onant to award the one that i think i will'gonna love. So nowt backs the question. How do I know what to run to awards? OK, haven example. Com on dem mind, i love doing there as a high school kid, as a college kid. And if i just ratored what I loved, i would be affailed actor today. So what i had to do was really tick in the whole picture to realize. OK, I do i love theater. I st love theater. But the whole picture was i ke to understand that doing theater involve the laer rejection. Iolve, getting bad reviews of play sometimes in college. Iolve, getting turn down for parts. I ou feeling like i was acting with people who in't think were any fun to be with all that. Right? And what i had to do was take in the larger picture, not just the isolated passion that i was looking at ##ight and so summer, this is a kind of discerment wher you say, OK, what goes with the whole package? So if we go back to sochiatry, what i found was that sochiatry, ha a whole package. It's wann of the lost paid special tees in madcion. But it's got what on the best life styles. On the other hand, cardiology is a way better paid, but I on like don it. So there aind of discerment that required for wha run? What do I hang back from walker Wave from? But the challenge to taket, or? No, just to sa focus on this one one tiny part it. So you asking people to do a custo analysis, and I THK th right. You know, i love photography, and i man active photography. And i activly did not chose a career in photography. Couse i intern or a couple photos studios. When i was younger, i cap meeting people who are artists. They definm selve as artist photographers as and yet herw they were shooting bottles of ketchup for an ad campaign. And the love and i assom dou ha a shoot for art any more. They sed I yo the don't of the time or i don't have the energy. And so there passion be kme a job. I mean that perjarrdly ##e it be ke work and i THK that se whenop iant be the i be fashion. I THK they for get that the just business. Just business. And i can tell you someboy who is passion i at for fashion, who s at job and fashion living they child to dream and they hate theur life. And i can show somebouty who stumbled and bumbled and foundm salls and manufacturing making a widget. They making a screw that FTS in the back of a thing that nobody everse and that th the happy is peopleive. I was talking to a contractor and i asm i just att of the blues ha of making small talkke just out curiosity. Do you like your job? Ye is is i love my job. Is is i love it and he set it with such passion. K now the word for it and like what you level about he goes. I get a build things with my own hands and I get a se them build. I get a see what i build you. I start with nothing. I star with a pile of would and some nails and some sheet rock. And then when I'm done you get that and I go doded again and again and again and again. Wherret's a kitchen remodeeling or whatever this. And he had suchilation to see the fruits of his actual laborur, right? What your saing rem me something i tohen which there grund work in anything. There'is boring work in anything. And so really, what we have a figur out is what is the thing? Wee aiming tour that has anoh in it that we love tht's worth doing all the boring parts, right? And so i'm sure not every bittef his contracting work. Oh, no, his construction is enlening. But boy seing, what is build? Light up, right? And he can hold on the that vision while is pounding that on teen nail, I'm having an insight here. Here is where we make a a stake. We re looking for the work to be the thing that is passion it. And it's not the work that is the thing that is passiont it. What that work producesht cosuse raising kids is offo, you know, in the early part, you don't sleep. ##u go yo yo, say changing diipers in the milet the night you get peed on and throne up on and in the get a little alder they become teenagers and arre pain and the as to be around and then wann them gets bad grades and you got a deal wh that an another one gets a fight and school and punches is a kid the you go a de a that and like where is the joy that? That thving kiss be joyful, right? But but than you have theis unpredictable glimmer of your kids helping each other or another parent saing your kids. Great, or? The teacher sag your re kid helps all the other kids you new get th is unaxpected glimmers that make all of that wor that in in instant. Yes, yes, and i know that from my workriting books. It's worst thing in the world. I don t don pele like i beke Don. It's the worst. But when you put something out in the world that resonates with people, it's instantly worth all itn I do it again. Even know everytimime i WM book is this is the last one and i think people are looking for the passion in the wrong place there looking for the passion in the labour. But theree not looking for what the labour produces. And maybe this is wot the problems with knowledge work, which is knowledge work is keine a sittg at a desk. I don't ne evan nohew. You defined wha qud on qu labor is in the lot of knowledge work and the what's the resultve that labour? And do we appreciate the resultve? Like we don't think about what the things we make, we don'tink about the impact they have in the world. I ll give your an noful exemample i met somity recently who has a very neh specialty. She help project manage the building of super yachts for the megawealthy the ra of course my first questionsh ha iat helld you get int to that you know ##ter this is dourients ever say thank you so much whtn you take the yot with your family for a week and she sad, it's never happened. So i sa tu so what your telling is theis multi billionaires is yo bilu the yas for mini hunders of millions of dollars that they use for two weeks, a year and they saeor and the world. Just in case the family might want ust atat no point on this MTJ has anybody everetd to you? Thanks. Wall you hard work whenn you bor the ya? And she'sad it's never happened and i sad w hawd is atat make your feel sh w so cused to me that what they hell good m doing in the world and so tremener laborur, I'm incredibley well compensated but there'is no glimmer the no what in amazing opportunity th i have to give to my family the opportunit to go on a mega ya that nono us could of for that nono us, whatever have the opportunity I'm they take my friends that I group with who have midd andome jobs. And i'm gon a show them something and give the man experience. And that makes all of the shit worth it. Because I get to give that to people that i love, and she never get that glimmer. Is she happy in? Yo, job? Ja. No, no, it pa. Well. Ja. Ja. Jaut do th. It has to be combination of getting there and the out come. Because like when you talk about kills and you listed you named, I beint. Yo, every horrable scenario and manymoe en raising my children. But there'also stuff al the way that is Halrius and wonderful and wacky there like stuff punctuatig. All the crab that is absolutly wondery, wil. And getting to real liv, yo ownild to part i kids movies that I. Wha never go to? I got to beyond roller coasters. So i think for me it's some of both I couldn't do the work that i do if i was only the out come because the outcoes ar so far into the future like writing AOK, right? You kno want to my friend sees in publishing hes sad only rige a book if it's going to move all long your own thinking in someways. And it's true like i. And i betd for you to that it was't just th you are regurggeitating stuff. That was tr. I was learning ang the way. Yah. I had inshts a loongg the way that as i am m rritiding, i feel electric beokcause. A new ideas poing it of me in that moment. Yeah, and the that i bad, that was part of what capture going. Not just the outcome of having it to put intu. Know w wee? Defining here younot. We defining. We re defining a purpose driven lifeuse. If you think what purposes? Purposes, i idealisism and deal is. And buyias very definition is unrealizable. Rht. All man a created equal. Never gonna happen. Never ever, ever. Not in a millionears hoever. It's the string towards that. And to your point, it's the mil markers. I don'tno had defined. And but like forple women s suffragge civil rights, abolition of slaverieske. Ah, who look, we got. We gett in closeer, guys. We get in closeer. Let's keep going ##ht to your point. I think i it wasit just allal work the whod time waiting for the final outcoe th. Then, yo, shitd. We shuld absolute liquid. And i think your right. I think it ghoes back to th glimmers. Which is the little glimours that say. You know what? This is worth th. I. I'm. I'mn a keep on this. I'm a keep doing this. We kid reariing thing and not at the mop for adoption. Beokcause, you know, that was a fun family dinner last niht. Ja. Exacty, exacty, exact. I. So i thinks if talkingout purpose drive and life it, we go right back to beginning of this conversation and. And this comes directly from your dat wich is what i love, which is from a very young age. We still in people. We still in our youngesst generations. It is good to be in ideal lit. It is good to strive, to contribute to something big orithin yourself. You won't know how i get there. You'change yo mind a hundert times. But you have to keep your head above the looking beyond the horizon. And so long is you feel like your getting closerd to the horizon. Even it's a winind the difficult road. So long is you have elements. That's say. I think yon to good path here. You will have a happy life. An is long is there something nururshing a long the way there god be something along the wait. I keep me this money play any roll and people happiness aording to your study, it does that what we find is that you need to get your basic needs me in order to be happy. And that every dollar you make tor getting your re basic needs mad like, you know, food and shelter, and eating your kids like every dollar you make makes you have herar. We know that. But theat th you buy that $100 million yaut does'trely make your hap year. Ja, on average. Like you know, if you toke all the $100 million yat owners there they would't be happ your re on average TH in the people who basically ha enough, who only have a $50 million y. Ye, y y ex b gno compassion is relative rightuse. Billionres is on compariing them seles to us. Billionres a compariing them seles to weachther y some times theis billion arre in great pain because they have a couple fewer billion thn somebody el me. It's hard to imagine, and ye, I know it in my onlfe, I can compare myself on the most trivial things the other people and the I tred a pul backgrom that and notic what I'm doing unrelated, i'm just con to sause its fun. You wa hu understand the difference for and million and a billionll people talkout millionaires and billionaires? Ja, so an easy whah it understand difference? A million seconds is aeven and a have days. A billion seconds is drei undig and have years. Wow. Okay. And that's the difference between be million and the it's notan close y. But you know, the most valueable thing we have is time. So like your analogy that you talkingutond, th second ar famore precious. Ultimately dollar money is a redeable commodity. We sp we lose it, we can make more. But spending time or energy do are non redeemable commoditdities. And everyone gets the same amount from day one. Everybody get fo hor is in the day. But we don't know how much we get right. That the thing, oh oh, ins of life spend. Yah. That's even more interestinng. Yeh, so you we, right, we all have hours. Alls in the day. We don'tno hawy vingt hour day is we get exacty. I will me give that precious commoditdy to another human being. When somebody struggling at work and we sid down with them and we give them somet tough love. When your kid is struggling at school on the teacher spins and our after school ar friend is moving. And we god ofth theur house and we pack boxes. Yeah, the expenseive time as a gift. I mean that as a gift? Ja. Th you ha us allig time to be product is well, i thing sometimes zning out and watching tv is the best use of that time. I'm not making the analogy that you have to make use of all your time. I'm talking ver spcificlly about the value of time is a GIF to another human being. Yes is more valable than any gift on the planet. I have a quote her from one of my ze teachers. Iss name is John Tart. And he said attention is the most basic form of love. If you think about atat are und divideded attention. It's the most valueable thingk with got to give o. The only thing we have thse days is divideded attention. And we can EV and watcht TV without also Checking social media, anding attat. Absolute research shows we ticayreen at. So the only thing we have theis days is divideded attention. And yet the best wait express love to someone is undervided attention. Yeh, you re bloing my mind a little bit. I want us. You too. Final questions. How happy do money and fame actually make people the Don T. They don't make people not happy ether. What fame may, because fame can make people int. Tr your life and stufop. So fame actually Migke make you lass happy money doesn't make you have your or not have your WCE. You get above a certain level. You don't get much of a bump. You get some bump, but not that much fame. Fame is really a double edge sord. And you, my be able theis say something about that. Because you received to lot of public attention. And i'm sure it's not all wonderf. I think i think of it is costight. I don't think of it is good or better. You know, like I never sorte ied out. I'm happt in the shadows. That's my happy place. I like being behind the scenes. My goal is the spread a message. And to leave this world and betutters shipped that i founded and contribute to the lives of my friends and the people i don'tnow is well. And part of the cost of that is some lost of privacy and and it's worth itcause the benefit. So ouways that very small cast o can i te so when my ted talk when viral. So i I'm very seriouslanbove thn zen and someone set will now you shuld put up a website and i hadnow web presence to all. And i set now i was donn't gona do that. That was all ego. That was all gover to the darks side. And my teachers sed you have ability to convey ideas to people that mom to them don't do that. And so they pusht me what your describing W this se don't stay on the shadows if you can be of use. Ja, that is my experience in the early days when my workstarter ag gain traction. I was militant about keeping my face an name of everything. Like i wnantd to put my name on the book in like mouse typeuse the i and never would put my picture on the cover ever a book. I s still wnant t tocause. I'm not the thing. And i refused have my picture on my website for years. I i wouln't let my name be the Ur URL because it's not about me and thn iat'some. Point I made the realization that I and your re. This is well. Which is you actually live two versions of yourself. You are you obviously bitut youe also the representation of your message, absoluolu. And how dar i selfisly deny the representation of my message? Beokcause, people don't follow ideas is they follow people. Beokcaes ideas ar abstract and people or real. So we create representations of a set of values. A Martin Luther King is a representation of a set of values. We fall a Martin Luther King but not really will really follow the ideals that he std for i beokca, I stand for th i deals to there. My ideal is much is they are his, for example. And that sense you a place holder if you will forhod set of values and aspertions. That's a function that'important to serve her is another question for you. What's the besting we can do right now for our happiness? Two things. Engage with people and engage in things you care about. So iily engage in things you care about with people you care about. That's the sweet by what a joy y. This is fun. Whad't? Absolute joy. I leave ated and buzzing me too. Actually this is a pleasure and unaxpected pleasure. Thank you so so much. I try. Preate. Take care. If you enjo th podcastd like to here, please subscribe wer you like to to podcasts. And if you like eveent more optimism. Checkout my website. Sim Ison. I do com for classes, videos and more until than take care yourself. Take care. A B of optimism is a production of the optimism company. It s produced and edit i by Lindsay Garinius. David ja and devvid Johnson are executute. Producers ar Henry A. Conrad and Greg Ruders, Shm.